water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

It depends upon the speed of the craft that one falls from ... or at
least it seems that way ...

Bart F.

Dillon Pyron

2004-08-10 13:22:14 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

It depends upon the speed of the craft that one falls from ... or at
least it seems that way ...
Bart F.

Altitude counts for a little, too.

--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

nobody

2004-08-10 10:49:47 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)

The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.

Bart F.

Lee Bell

2004-08-10 11:09:05 UTC

Post by Mario
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)

No need to clarify. The question was pretty clear to start. No need to
overcomplicate.

Post by nobody
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location.

Not in the generally used sense of the word water.

Post by nobody
Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you

need more weight in the ocean vs.

Post by nobody
a fresh water lake.

Ummm, no. You've got it backwards. The saltier the water, the higher the
density. That is why you need more weight in the ocean vs a fresh water
lake.

Lee

nobody

2004-08-10 15:20:36 UTC

That should teach me to type at 6:30 in the morning. Thanks for
correcting my blooper, Lee. And I minored in Coastal Zone Ecology ...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bart

Post by Lee Bell

Post by Mario
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)

No need to clarify. The question was pretty clear to start. No need to
overcomplicate.

Post by nobody
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location.

Not in the generally used sense of the word water.

Post by nobody
Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you

need more weight in the ocean vs.

Post by nobody
a fresh water lake.

Ummm, no. You've got it backwards. The saltier the water, the higher the
density. That is why you need more weight in the ocean vs a fresh water
lake.
Lee

Joe English

2004-08-10 12:03:25 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.
Bart F.

Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density?

nobody

2004-08-10 15:21:17 UTC

Yeah. I was asleep.

Post by Joe English

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the
water, the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the
ocean vs. a fresh water lake.
Bart F.

Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density?

TonyH

2004-08-10 12:20:52 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.

I think you've got that arse about face. The saltier(!), or more correctly
the higher the salinity or salt content, i.e. increasing Kg NaCl/Litres of
H20, the DENSER the solution, therefore the greater the buoyancy, so
requiring MORE ballast (Lead) not less.

In general, Salinity is a variable, dependent upon several factors, mainly:
Depth of sea, Rock formations of sea-bed & coastline, average ambient
temperature (evaporation issues), where the sea is 'fed' from (freshwater
mountain rivers / streams, underground water table and what rocks the water
passes through, etc.)

Salinity is not a constant, but can be averaged, however, it is highly
variable, especially near a coastline and at the surface due to factors such
as freshwater estuaries (often shown by a visible salocline with a
'shimmering' at the boundary or interface of the two differing densities of
water, and also from surface evaporation.

In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).

Post by nobody
Bart F.

nobody

2004-08-10 16:06:35 UTC

Post by TonyH

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.

I think you've got that arse about face. The saltier(!), or more correctly
the higher the salinity or salt content, i.e. increasing Kg NaCl/Litres of
H20, the DENSER the solution, therefore the greater the buoyancy, so
requiring MORE ballast (Lead) not less.
Depth of sea, Rock formations of sea-bed & coastline, average ambient
temperature (evaporation issues), where the sea is 'fed' from (freshwater
mountain rivers / streams, underground water table and what rocks the water
passes through, etc.)
Salinity is not a constant, but can be averaged, however, it is highly
variable, especially near a coastline and at the surface due to factors such
as freshwater estuaries (often shown by a visible salocline with a
'shimmering' at the boundary or interface of the two differing densities of
water, and also from surface evaporation.
In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).

Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem
... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with
warmer water near the surface, the amount of salt held in solution is
greater, ie. saltier, and therefore denser. Unless there is a lot of
mixing, this is usually the case. So, if one were able to put, say, a
three mile deep vertical pipe, with the upper end just out of the water,
and then apply suction to the top to get the flow going upwards, less
dense water would be in the tube. And thus, the water would flow up and
out of the tube, in theory, forever, with no external energy applied to
the system save the difference in pressure between the external water
and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way,
such as friction. But it's an interesting concept.

FWIW,

Bart F.

Steve Baker

2004-08-12 08:32:44 UTC

Post by nobody
Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem
... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with
warmer water near the surface, the amount of salt held in solution is
greater, ie. saltier, and therefore denser. Unless there is a lot of
mixing, this is usually the case. So, if one were able to put, say, a
three mile deep vertical pipe, with the upper end just out of the water,
and then apply suction to the top to get the flow going upwards, less
dense water would be in the tube. And thus, the water would flow up and
out of the tube, in theory, forever, with no external energy applied to
the system save the difference in pressure between the external water
and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way,
such as friction. But it's an interesting concept.

Apart from that suction, of course and the fact that the sun has a lot to do
with the varying salinity. However, perhaps a rain-powered turbine might
give you a similar & simpler result, based on evaporation, condensation &
precipitation!

:-)

Anders Arnholm

2004-08-10 14:52:40 UTC

Post by TonyH
In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).

To be even vorse the desity and temperature curve differes with the
salinity of the water. +4°C is for freash water. Salty water have it's
maximun a bit lower depending on the salinity of the water.

/ Balp

--
http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping

Chris Guynn

2004-08-10 15:04:59 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density.

Isn't that backwards? By adding weight (lead), you are increasing your
density so that you will sink more easily. Isn't this because saltwater is
more dense than freshwater?

Post by nobody
That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.
Bart F.

nobody

2004-08-10 15:40:53 UTC

Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing)

Post by Chris Guynn

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density.

Isn't that backwards? By adding weight (lead), you are increasing your
density so that you will sink more easily. Isn't this because saltwater is
more dense than freshwater?

Post by nobody
That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.
Bart F.

Chris Guynn

2004-08-10 15:43:42 UTC

Post by nobody
Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing)

Sorry for the extra punishment. If i had realized that this had already
been pointed out I would have kept my comments to myself.

<plus, apologies to Popeye for apologizing... doh>

rwjg40

2004-08-13 20:30:57 UTC

Post by nobody
Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.

Of course you know by now that you got it exactly backwards...

Gordon in Austin

mike gray

2004-08-10 13:53:48 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
currents of differing temperature and salinity.

But a pint's a pound, the world around.

CAS

2004-08-10 13:58:40 UTC

Post by mike gray
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

Not here it bloody isn't - I got robbed of three quid for a pint of Stella
not so long ago...

;-)

CAS

Gary R. Schmidt

2004-08-10 14:12:50 UTC

Post by mike gray

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
currents of differing temperature and salinity.
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around."

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries

mike gray

2004-08-10 15:41:42 UTC

Post by Gary R. Schmidt

Post by mike gray

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
currents of differing temperature and salinity.
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around."

Naw, that doesn't even rhyme.

All good scientific principles rhyme!

Peter R Cook

2004-08-10 18:15:48 UTC

Post by mike gray

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
currents of differing temperature and salinity.
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series
Baseball games

Regards

--
Peter R Cook

mike gray

2004-08-10 20:55:08 UTC

Post by Peter R Cook

Post by mike gray
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series
Baseball games

Uppity furriners!

simon v

2004-08-11 12:54:59 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.
Thanks,
Mario

you're not related to Akkula by any chance are you?

Spam Magnet

2004-08-10 19:39:58 UTC

<snip>
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**
(which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds)
But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-)

PeterS
Remove my PANTS to reply.

** Fresh water, I'm sure my primary school teacher meant to say.

Keith S.

2004-08-10 20:18:43 UTC

Post by Spam Magnet
My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**

If I remember the rhyme right, it's 'A pint of *pure* water weighs
a pound an a quarter'.

- Keith

mike gray

2004-08-10 20:56:09 UTC

Post by Spam Magnet

<snip>
But a pint's a pound, the world around.

My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**
(which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds)
But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-)

As long as it rhymes. That's all that's important.

Reef Fish

2004-08-11 00:03:18 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,

No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
just a few relevant factors on "density".

Post by Mario
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.

The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
oceans.

You wanna measure salinity in metric units?

millisiemens (mS)
a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
used
to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
salt
to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.

I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
:)

-- Bob.

Mario

2004-08-11 06:18:54 UTC

Hello,

Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
dead sea, and black sea.

As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
according to temperature and pressure.

I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
between the different seas.

Anyone has it please?

Thanks,

Mario

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,

No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
just a few relevant factors on "density".

Post by Mario
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
oceans.
You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
millisiemens (mS)
a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
used
to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
salt
to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
:)
-- Bob.

Reef Fish

2004-08-11 14:17:14 UTC

But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
in question.

The rank-order or ratio will remain approximately the same all year
round (assuming nearly comparable temperatures and pressures without
knowing what those actually are).

Post by Mario
I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
between the different seas.

I am curious as to WHY. If this a project in a physics class in school?

Post by Mario
Anyone has it please?

I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone
might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY
given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for
the choice of term <g>) on the density VALUES?

Post by Mario
Thanks,
Mario

-- Bob.

Post by Mario

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,

No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
just a few relevant factors on "density".

Post by Mario
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
oceans.
You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
millisiemens (mS)
a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
used
to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
salt
to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
:)
-- Bob.

rwjg40

2004-08-13 20:42:05 UTC

But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
in question.
The rank-order or ratio will remain approximately the same all year
round (assuming nearly comparable temperatures and pressures without
knowing what those actually are).

Post by Mario
I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
between the different seas.

I am curious as to WHY. If this a project in a physics class in school?

Post by Mario
Anyone has it please?

Post by Mario
Thanks,
Mario

-- Bob.

Post by Mario

Post by Mario
Hello,
Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,

No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
just a few relevant factors on "density".

Post by Mario
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
oceans.
You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
millisiemens (mS)
a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
used
to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
salt
to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
:)
-- Bob.

I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.

Gordon in Austin

Reef Fish

2004-08-14 12:50:56 UTC

Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario>

Post by Reef Fish
But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
in question.

Undaunted, Mario ssked again,

Post by Mario
Anyone has it please?

I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.
Gordon in Austin

True to a first approximation.

Mario and Gordon and whoever else bent on density:

http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm

-- Bob.

Crownfield

2004-08-14 17:43:18 UTC

Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario>

Post by Reef Fish
But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
in question.

Undaunted, Mario ssked again,

Post by Mario
Anyone has it please?

I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.
Gordon in Austin

True to a first approximation.
http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm

Damn. that explains it!

diving in cold water is harder because the water is thicker!
I knew there had to be a reason.

Post by Reef Fish
-- Bob.

Adam Helberg

2004-08-11 14:18:22 UTC

Post by Mario
Hello,
Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
dead sea, and black sea.
As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
according to temperature and pressure.
I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
between the different seas.
Anyone has it please?
Thanks,
Mario

This would be interesting to know as I believe there is a difference in weight
requirements when you go diving in different areas of the world. I spend some time on
Google trying to find it without success. I did find that the Red Sea is one of the
more saline ones but nothing worth posting.

Adam

John Wells

2004-08-14 13:54:10 UTC

[snip]

Post by Reef Fish
millisiemens (mS)

[snip]

So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Crownfield

2004-08-14 17:44:23 UTC