Dual pupose camera. Good for family snaps but has a good underwater case

[dechucka]

I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.

Any suggestions?

By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?

I know a totally luddite question

[JJ]

Optical Zoom uses lenses to zoom in (like a traditional camera). Digital
zoom uses computers and 'guesses' what the picture would be like if you
zoomed in (ie. its not good). Digital zoom is mostly useless in that you
would be better zooming in on the area you want when you get home and load
the pic into photoshop or whatever.

I bought a Olympus mju with a 40m housing and I am pretty happy. Its ideal
for the kids as even without the housing its water proof to 5m and can be
man handled roughly (its a tough baby). See my previous reports in the n/g
on this.

JJ

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

[dechucka]

Post by JJ
Optical Zoom uses lenses to zoom in (like a traditional camera). Digital
zoom uses computers and 'guesses' what the picture would be like if you
zoomed in (ie. its not good). Digital zoom is mostly useless in that you
would be better zooming in on the area you want when you get home and load
the pic into photoshop or whatever.
I bought a Olympus mju with a 40m housing and I am pretty happy. Its ideal
for the kids as even without the housing its water proof to 5m and can be
man handled roughly (its a tough baby). See my previous reports in the n/g
on this.
JJ

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday
snaps ( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I
can also get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

[dechucka]

Post by JJ
Optical Zoom uses lenses to zoom in (like a traditional camera). Digital
zoom uses computers and 'guesses' what the picture would be like if you
zoomed in (ie. its not good). Digital zoom is mostly useless in that you
would be better zooming in on the area you want when you get home and load
the pic into photoshop or whatever.
I bought a Olympus mju with a 40m housing and I am pretty happy. Its ideal
for the kids as even without the housing its water proof to 5m and can be
man handled roughly (its a tough baby). See my previous reports in the n/g
on this.

Thanks so if i want to look through the "eyepiece to get a zoom photo i am
relying on optical zoom ie you shoot what you see

is that correct?

[JJ]

Post by dechucka
Thanks so if i want to look through the "eyepiece to get a zoom photo i am
relying on optical zoom ie you shoot what you see
is that correct?

Underwater you will struggle to look through the eyepeice with your mask on,
I think most housings now assume you will use the screen to line up a shot.
In which case it doesn't matter what zoom you use, its WYSIWYG (but digitial
zoom may give poor results - especially in low light).

[dechucka]

Post by JJ

Post by dechucka
Thanks so if i want to look through the "eyepiece to get a zoom photo i
am relying on optical zoom ie you shoot what you see
is that correct?

Underwater you will struggle to look through the eyepeice with your mask
on, I think most housings now assume you will use the screen to line up a
shot. In which case it doesn't matter what zoom you use, its WYSIWYG (but
digitial zoom may give poor results - especially in low light).

true but on land I may want to

[JJ]

Post by dechucka

Post by JJ
Underwater you will struggle to look through the eyepeice with your mask
on, I think most housings now assume you will use the screen to line up a
shot. In which case it doesn't matter what zoom you use, its WYSIWYG (but
digitial zoom may give poor results - especially in low light).

true but on land I may want to

Then I would suggest optical zoom is what you want.

[dechucka]

Post by JJ

Post by dechucka

Post by JJ
Underwater you will struggle to look through the eyepeice with your mask
on, I think most housings now assume you will use the screen to line up
a shot. In which case it doesn't matter what zoom you use, its WYSIWYG
(but digitial zoom may give poor results - especially in low light).

true but on land I may want to

Then I would suggest optical zoom is what you want.

thankyou

[Michael C]

Post by dechucka

Post by JJ
Then I would suggest optical zoom is what you want.

thankyou

Basically forget digital zoom even exists. It is a marketing wank tool and
if your camera has an option to turn it off then turn it off.

Michael

[Celcius]

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

Hi!
I would recommend the Canon 640:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona640/page16.asp
It has a great rating. It's not too expensive and Canon also has a
underwater housing for it (I think it's 30m, but it's sufficient).
The camera has an excellent zoom and is a 10 MP.
I have a Canon XT, but wanted to go back to UW photog. Ikelite housings for
the Xt as well as a strobe would have cost more than $2000 Cad.! No way! The
460 is a great solution and can be used as a spare camera as well.
Cheers!
Marcel

[Androo]

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?

Most popular cameras have an underwater casing these days (check the
manufacturers' websites).

For poster prints 6 or 7 megapixels is enough.

The Canon mentioned is a good camera, but have a look at the Canon A710IS,
which has a 6x optical zoom and image stabiliser. The A570IS is similar but
with 4x opical zoom and cheaper.
There's also the Panasonic TZ1, TZ2 or TZ3, which have 10x optical zoom
(TZ2/TZ3 are wide angle, so better for group shots and interiors) but are
still compact. Not sure if the underwater housing is available yet though.
The Fuji F31fd is smaller and has only 3x zoom, but is a great camera,
especially for photos indoors and in dark conditions.

Have a look at some reviews on www.dpreview.com

Optical zoom is when the lens physically moves in and out. This gives the
best quality.

Digital zoom just enlarges the pixels of the image, so if you use it, you
might start to see jagged edges and a blocky look, especially if you zoom in
a lot or print at a large size, so be careful with it if you're printing
poster size. It could ruin your photos.

Androo

[Ron Recer]

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

Our local paper had a short article about digital cameras in yesterday's
paper. The article concerned reliability and was attributed to Consumer
Reports. They said there was not a clear winner as to which brands/models
were most reliable, but there were losers. For P&S cameras they said
Vivitar had the highest incidence of repair and Olympus held the same spot
for DSLRs.

Ron

[Sheldon]

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

What about a camera especially made for diving?
http://www.scubatoys.com/store/Scuba_Cameras.asp

You may be a little limited as far as depth goes, but the tradeoff might be
worth it.

[Dan Bracuk]

"dechucka" <***@vomithotmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:
:I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
:( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
:get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.

I use a Sony point and shoot. If I knew then what I know now, I would
have got something else.

From a photography perspective, I don't think there is much to choose
between Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Kodak, Nikon, Canon, etc. There is a
difference in storage though. Sony uses memory sticks which offer
less flexibility than flash cards.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.

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[-hh]

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?

Look through the various manufacturer's websites at what products they
have and what UW housings they sell for the same. One you have some
idea of the offerings, go check out which of these cameras are new and
which are "old" (released a year ago) and consider leaning towards a
new one, so that the UW accessories will be available longer in the
marketplace (also, a housing that fits more than one camera can be
favored here too).

For specific camera features, look for one that the reviews say it
doesn't have significant shutter lag. That had been a harder piece of
data to find, but do persevere.

For other camera attributes, consider your battery choices carefully,
as well as the type of memory card.

A camera with a proprietary battery design means you'll have to buy
their battery to have spares, but are generally more compact for
fitting in your pocket when its not in the housing - - IMO, go for one
that takes AA's.

For memory card type, Compact Flash is gone from the P&S, and looks to
be on the decline for (at least consumer) dSLRs too. Avoid non-
mainstream formats such as the Sony Memory Stick, as you'll end up
paying a premium on each memory card, especially if you're looking at
getting one with a higher access speed. The card that manufacturers
seems to be most standardized on today is the SD.

Post by dechucka
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?

Optical zoom is a real zoom (via actual magnification through
lenses).
Digital zoom is a "pretend" zoom (via cropping of an unmagnified
image).


-hh

[Michael C]

Post by -hh
For specific camera features, look for one that the reviews say it
doesn't have significant shutter lag. That had been a harder piece of
data to find, but do persevere.

This is an especially important feature I think. When something is swimming
around you fast you need to take photos quickly.

Post by -hh
For other camera attributes, consider your battery choices carefully,
as well as the type of memory card.
A camera with a proprietary battery design means you'll have to buy
their battery to have spares, but are generally more compact for
fitting in your pocket when its not in the housing - - IMO, go for one
that takes AA's.

Although AAs are preferable I would consider this to be a lower priority.

Post by -hh
For memory card type, Compact Flash is gone from the P&S, and looks to
be on the decline for (at least consumer) dSLRs too. Avoid non-
mainstream formats such as the Sony Memory Stick, as you'll end up
paying a premium on each memory card, especially if you're looking at
getting one with a higher access speed. The card that manufacturers
seems to be most standardized on today is the SD.

I think you'd be mad to buy anything besides SD these days. PDAs take it,
phones take it, car stereos take it, mp3 players take it and even some
cameras use it :-) I would get a mini SD card though as these cost the same,
are just as fast and come with an adaptor.

Michael

[-hh]

Post by Michael C
I think you'd be mad to buy anything besides SD these days. PDAs take it,
phones take it, car stereos take it, mp3 players take it and even some
cameras use it :-)

Agreed.

Post by Michael C
I would get a mini SD card though as these cost the same,
are just as fast and come with an adaptor.

I'm going to have to disagree here.

First off, while the mini-SD isn't as bad as some of the others, the
new generation of "mini/micro" cards are a *bad* thing because they
are rapidly becoming too small to handle reliably from a human factors
design standpoint.

We need to ask ourselves how much more likely we are to drop & lose
one of these micro-cards versus other form factors while trying to
replenish our camera with damp fingertips on a rocking boat, or on a
cold day (probably while wearing gloves):

<Loading Image...>

When components get this small, we're only going to dare to service
them under ideal, semi-"white room" conditions, which limits their
utility. For the application of a camera that we're going to take out
in the field, the problem is that we either can't reload "film", or we
have to take the risk taht if we drop it in the grass, we will never
find it and the money and photo investment on it is lost.

And while I agree that the mini-SD "isn't so bad", that's because it
really isn't all that different in overall size from the standard SD:

<http://x.msmobiles.com/portal/images/reviews/mobile-mate-plus-5-in-1-
reader/micro-sd-mini-sd-full-sd.jpg>

Overall, the reason why it should be skipped is because the size
change isn't significant and the need for an adaptor is simply because
the adaptor is one more thing that can go wrong.


-hh

[Michael C]

Post by -hh
I'm going to have to disagree here.
First off, while the mini-SD isn't as bad as some of the others, the
new generation of "mini/micro" cards are a *bad* thing because they
are rapidly becoming too small to handle reliably from a human factors
design standpoint.
We need to ask ourselves how much more likely we are to drop & lose
one of these micro-cards versus other form factors while trying to
replenish our camera with damp fingertips on a rocking boat, or on a

With a mini SD card you have no extra chance of dropping it because it's
firmly placed in it's adaptor. They all come with adaptors so if dropping
them is an issue keep them in their adaptor.

Post by -hh
<http://podfeet.com/NosillaCast/NC_2006_08_27/micro_sd_card.jpg>
When components get this small, we're only going to dare to service
them under ideal, semi-"white room" conditions, which limits their
utility. For the application of a camera that we're going to take out
in the field, the problem is that we either can't reload "film", or we
have to take the risk taht if we drop it in the grass, we will never
find it and the money and photo investment on it is lost.
And while I agree that the mini-SD "isn't so bad", that's because it

The point isn't that it is smaller, the point is that it fits more devices.

Post by -hh
<http://x.msmobiles.com/portal/images/reviews/mobile-mate-plus-5-in-1-
reader/micro-sd-mini-sd-full-sd.jpg>
Overall, the reason why it should be skipped is because the size
change isn't significant and the need for an adaptor is simply because
the adaptor is one more thing that can go wrong.

That is a potential issue I agree. With twice as many contact points there
is more potential for problems but so far I haven't had any issues.

Michael

[-hh]

Post by Michael C
With a mini SD card you have no extra chance of dropping it because it's
firmly placed in it's adaptor. They all come with adaptors so if dropping
them is an issue keep them in their adaptor.

So then the reason you're buying the mini-SD rather than a standard SD
is because ....?

Maybe I'm leaping here, but my assumption was that you're assuming
that the SD format will go away in the relatively near future and that
either mini-SD replaces it (which re-invokes this "too small" problem)
or that you're hoping that whatever the new standard is that emerges
will be suitable for having a mini-SD adaptor invented for it as
well.

Post by Michael C
The point isn't that it is smaller, the point is that it fits more devices.

Ah, okay. But this only applies if you are then willing to take the
mini- out of its SD adaptor, which then re-invokes the "too small"
concern, as well as adds the problem of lost / misplaced adaptors.

Post by Michael C

Post by -hh
Overall, the reason why it should be skipped is because the size
change isn't significant and the need for an adaptor is simply because
the adaptor is one more thing that can go wrong.

That is a potential issue I agree. With twice as many contact points there
is more potential for problems but so far I haven't had any issues.

There's also horror stories about how evil Compact Flash is because of
its tendency for bent pins, even though it seems that 99.9% of us
never have any problem there either. The real bugaboo here is that
the failure mode may be significantly less obvious than with crude old
fashioned film technology and so forth...salt water and electricity
still aren't close buddies.


-hh

[Michael C]

Post by -hh
So then the reason you're buying the mini-SD rather than a standard SD
is because ....?

Because it fits more devices. When I originally bought my camera the only
thing the SD card fit was my camera. But since then I've used it in many
other devices which I didn't have at the time. Same might apply to mini-SD
in the future. Already my phone takes mini-sd although that's pretty much a
novelty.

Post by -hh
Maybe I'm leaping here, but my assumption was that you're assuming
that the SD format will go away in the relatively near future and that
either mini-SD replaces it (which re-invokes this "too small" problem)
or that you're hoping that whatever the new standard is that emerges
will be suitable for having a mini-SD adaptor invented for it as
well.

From my pov there are only 4 formats, PCMCIA, CF, SD and mini SD. Memory
stick, MMC, SM and XD don't exist for me because I would never buy a device
that used these. As PCMCIA is pretty much dead as a flash format and CF is
going that way, that only leaves SD and mini-SD. By buying mini-SD with the
adaptor you've got them both covered.

Post by -hh
Ah, okay. But this only applies if you are then willing to take the
mini- out of its SD adaptor, which then re-invokes the "too small"
concern, as well as adds the problem of lost / misplaced adaptors.

That's true but in the case of a phone the mini-sd is an appropriate size I
guess. What I think is a wank is micro-sd. While mini is easy enough to
handle the micros are getting very fiddly.

Although I don't completely disagree with you, I would prefer it that mini
and micro SD didn't exist, it just complicates things further when SD
doesn't really need to be made smaller. But now that mini-sd does exist it's
probably worth buying it.

Michael

[Dan Bracuk]

"Michael C" <***@nospam.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:

:This is an especially important feature I think. When something is swimming
:around you fast you need to take photos quickly.

If something is swimming around you fast, getting the photo is
strictly luck.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.

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[Michael C]

Post by Dan Bracuk
:This is an especially important feature I think. When something is swimming
:around you fast you need to take photos quickly.
If something is swimming around you fast, getting the photo is
strictly luck.

Right, and when you do anything that requires luck, such as enter a lottery,
what's the surefire way to increase your odds? :-)

Michael

[dechucka]

Post by Michael C

Post by Dan Bracuk
:This is an especially important feature I think. When something is swimming
:around you fast you need to take photos quickly.
If something is swimming around you fast, getting the photo is
strictly luck.

Right, and when you do anything that requires luck, such as enter a
lottery, what's the surefire way to increase your odds? :-)

that IMHO is the great advantage of a digital, blaze away and you may luck a
great photo or 2 and just delete the rest. Fim cameras it is expensive to
throw out the duds

[Michael C]

Post by dechucka
that IMHO is the great advantage of a digital, blaze away and you may luck
a great photo or 2 and just delete the rest. Fim cameras it is expensive
to throw out the duds

That's exactly right. Someone in another thread mentioned they throw away
75% of their shots. They must be a brilliant photographer because on a
recent holiday I took 2500 shots and threw away around 2450. The
professionals seam to do the same thing with film.

[dechucka]

Post by Michael C

Post by dechucka
that IMHO is the great advantage of a digital, blaze away and you may
luck a great photo or 2 and just delete the rest. Fim cameras it is
expensive to throw out the duds

That's exactly right. Someone in another thread mentioned they throw away
75% of their shots. They must be a brilliant photographer because on a
recent holiday I took 2500 shots and threw away around 2450. The
professionals seam to do the same thing with film.

as a wedding present I have have a fantsicly beaut photo of a sunrise over a
beach that a mate of mine had surf and dived around for years. A couple of
years ofter I asked him about that photo and it had taken him 6 rolls of 36
over 2 right days to get that one photo

[Michael C]

Post by dechucka
as a wedding present I have have a fantsicly beaut photo of a sunrise over
a beach that a mate of mine had surf and dived around for years. A couple
of years ofter I asked him about that photo and it had taken him 6 rolls
of 36 over 2 right days to get that one photo

That's dedication. :-)

Michael

[Jeff R.]

Post by Michael C

Post by dechucka
as a wedding present I have have a fantsicly beaut photo of a sunrise
over a beach that a mate of mine had surf and dived around for years. A
couple of years ofter I asked him about that photo and it had taken him 6
rolls of 36 over 2 right days to get that one photo

That's dedication. :-)
Michael

Yup.

I used to have a camera like that, too.

--
Jeff R.

[Michael C]

Post by Jeff R.

Post by Michael C

Post by dechucka
as a wedding present I have have a fantsicly beaut photo of a sunrise
over a beach that a mate of mine had surf and dived around for years. A
couple of years ofter I asked him about that photo and it had taken him
6 rolls of 36 over 2 right days to get that one photo

That's dedication. :-)

Yup.
I used to have a camera like that, too.

Your camera was dedicated? ;-)

Michael

[Walter Cornett]

I use an Olympus stylus 600 with a Olympus pt-29 housing..No problems yet

Post by dechucka
I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps
( decent zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also
get a underwater housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

[Adam Helberg]

I am looking for a digital camera that is good for the family/holiday snaps ( decent
zoom and can blow up pictures to poster size) but that I can also get a underwater
housing to 40 metres or so for.
Any suggestions?
By the way what is the difference between an optical and digital zoom?
I know a totally luddite question

The Fuji F30 with underwater housing is not bad and very compact.

Adam